On this episode of The Roys Report, Julie explores these important questions with Mitch Little, whos not just an attorney for victims. I know about the deleted emails. The ministry began in 1971 while Stuart served as senior pastor of Elmbrook Church in Brookfield, Wisconsin, which grew into the largest evangelical church in the state. Today, Telling the Truthis heard anytime and anywhere, thanks to international radio programming, the internet, and our mobile app. Fortunately, we have not had so much as one complaint about any one of our pastors or staff members. Yeah, without using any names. May God lead your next steps and may you find ways to use your gifts from a place of health. The cover up of his behavior manifested at the elder board level. The radio program began to attract listeners and supporters, enabling the ministry to expand its broadcasting to a growing number of stations throughout the United States and abroad. But I had limited contact with him. It is a collection of people. WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. So as we part ways, let us make the departure sweet. But it really had the tone has to be set by leadership for a culture of goodness. So, while I have strong feelings about this, as you can imagine being a lawyer, but at all points, legal advice has to be subservient to Scripture. Amen. Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. The vanilla bean is incredibly hard to harvest. At that age, I had never had someone in spiritual authority lie or manipulate me. My personal belief, not speaking on behalf of anyone else, my personal belief is that that structure is designed to fail, because elders cant elder in that structure. So disappointed in ECFA. There are therapy notes to support her story. Yeah, that is super dangerous. I learned that from Bill. So I want you to think about this while you know Bill Hybels is being accused of doing awful things by a dozen women. But then its my understanding too, that when these women met with the elders, the level of bullying and abuse that they were subjected to, was such that I know Vonda told me there were elders in tears at the end of this, of how pervasive the abuse was, I dont know how specific you can be but can you give people an idea of, of what actually happened to these women that were abused? WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. JULIE ROYS 23:38, What I meant by that comment is that unanimity didnt create any problems for the board and senior pastor because everyone agreed with James MacDonald. And Hybels said, essentially, Yeah, well, well do it that way. And Clinton showed up and then didnt comply with anything that the board had said. Thank God I have Jesus. I thought that emails could always be recovered, even after being erased, by a good IT person. God is doing a new work both in the lives of the Briscoe's and in the life of Bent Tree. What is it was Chicago? The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. Now, God is leading our friend and leader Pete away from these walls, and we look on with sadness the sadness that comes when a season you love is passing. Briscoe stepped down as senior pastor at the end of 2000 but remained involved in the church and active in overseas missions. Guest Bios Show Transcript Many times, those who have experienced spiritual abuse are retraumatized when they try to speak about whats happened. Theres, theres an advocacy piece to lawyering that needs to be there a little bit, but it doesnt need to be pervasive. At the same time, hes writing a book and writing articles for Christianity Today about marriage purity. If you go back and you look at Bill Hybels books in retrospect, Im amazed at some of the things that are contained in his books that people became okay with. He now coaches Pete Briscoe | Brookfield WI. In this Milgram experiment, they found that people are willing to do things under collar of authority and that they would not probably otherwise do. And what lessons can we learn from Willow Creeks mistakes? Vonda was at one time the director of Willow Creeks vocal ministry, and she was one of the first women to come forward and speak publicly about Bill Hybels alleged sexual misconduct. "For many of you, he was preacher, pastor, mentor or friend. Theyre not holding anybody accountable then. Welcome to the Roys report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. So you can go to Amazon and enter in Boz Tchividjian and his book will pop up but you need to know what youre looking for because people who are sexual predators, they have an acuity for blending into society in ways that they dont stand out like this is not like, you know, the sexual predator in your church is not some, you know, grease ball sitting outside your kids ministry just kind of looking for a way to get at, like, thats our common image of what a sexual predator is. Much has been written on establishing criteria for board member selection. They didnt have the ability to respond to new issues as they arose. Fifteen years later, I joined staff at Bent Tree. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. And if youd like to find me online, just go to JulieRoys.com. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. And yet here we see a church thats ostensibly about serving God, and its about proclaiming the gospel and yet this is happening within the church. For that we are forever grateful. This is simply a place where I share the message of Gods unadulterated grace through my preaching sermons and bible teaching. Mike is a dear friend and Im sad this day has come. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. Subscribe Sign up for my daily email devotionals and to stay in touch! You know, I believe in spiritual strongholds and things like that. It is not a program is not a set of services. :), I would strongly urge you to research Voice of the Martyrs. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. So Mitch has a very unique perspective. WebBriscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. Hes also the chairman of the elder board and his own church, Bent Tree Fellowship. Its so HARD today to know who to donate to. Everything started to make sense. It started as a simple tape duplication ministry in a home basement, using a reel-to-reel tape recorder linked to a dozen smaller recorders to duplicate the Briscoes' teaching. Its something like Child Protection Policies. Briscoe James MacDonald was friends with Ed Stetzer. A man who "dedicated his life to sharing Gods Word with the world" has died at the age of 91. Think about the psychology of someone who could be doing what was alleged by Pat Baranowski to have been done to her. Petes leadership at Bent Tree casts a long shadow with a legacy that will endure. WebPete Briscoe is a podcaster and evangelical pastor. That was my upbringing. I think its incredibly dangerous. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? Bent Tree is a multi site mega church in the Dallas Fort Worth area thats had its own share of crises over the past several years. Briscoe I just, Im amazed that they were in such geographic proximity to one another dealing with almost the exact same problem. The thing that is so terrifying is that someone who has been a senior pastor in an organization like that is not beyond it. Growing up in a ministry family, Pete watched and learned from his parents and witnessed the reach and power of Telling the Truth 's media outreach. He currently leads a multi-faceted media ministry called Telling the Truth which he shares with his parents Stuart and Jill Briscoe. He now coaches Pete Briscoe | Brookfield WI. Growing up in a ministry family, Pete watched and learned from his parents and witnessed the reach and power of Telling the Truth 's media outreach. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. We were talking a little bit about the elder board. Great! And thats not what this is about. To us, he was Stu, Dad and Poppa and we already miss him achingly." Judson is located just 36 miles outside Chicago on a beautiful 90 acre campus. This person or these people were hurt as a result, you have a pride problem. Heres to better days and better church health. WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. I know from hearing from men, that that Bill abused men emotionally, spiritually while they were working there. It is what manifests. And I saw this at Harvest Bible chapel when I was doing reporting there. Well, I want to turn our discussion to what youve experienced at your own church, which is a multi-site mega church there in the Dallas Fort Worth area, because those are things where youve been able to apply some of these lessons that youve learned from watching the negative example maybe of Willow Creek, youve learned an awful lot from going through crisis at your own church. Its biblical. Do we have a theology of goodness at our church? Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. That has been documented and proven through therapy notes. I will always have my faith in Jesus but church especially WCCC has been a huge disappointment. https://world.wng.org/sites/default/files/issues/pdf/world_sep012018.pdf, Also, Id encourage you to read the website below. Powerful ministry at some points. My husband and I actually bought our last car from our court and we had a great experience. And so I hope your listeners understand what I mean, when I say this, thats how good God is that he can use people who are even morally bankrupt, to bring people to himself. And the thing that is astonishing to me, you used the issue of emotional vulnerability is that, you know, a lot of times our strengths are our weaknesses. I hear you say that and I believe in accountability really strongly. Lets say you have you have six or eight members who are saying, Guys, we need to fire this person. When the when the mans lying on the side of the road, naked and bleeding, theyre the priests who cross the street. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. I know the owners Dan and Kurt Marquart personally, and I can say without reservation that they truly run their business with honesty, integrity and transparency. And which really makes me sad because theyve had a change in leadership. I was the senior pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship for nearly 30 years. Its not okay. It grows on the vanilla orchid, and it only grows in really exotic places like Tahiti, and there are some places in Mexico it grows too, but what is unique about the vanilla orchid is when it blooms, its got to be pollinated within one day. The outside investigation report said something along the lines of, Bill Hybels hundreds or thousands of emails with this woman were, not available. Well, as it turns out my understanding from talking to witnesses, those emails were actually destroyed. He said, Pete, you should have one lawyer on your board but not more than one. And I believe that there is some really sound wisdom in that. Subscribe Sign up for my daily email devotionals and to stay in touch! Well, to answer your question, very bad. Yes, I totally agree. Jill and Stuart came to the States from England. What I do, you know, and what Ministry Watch is doing and what all these independent bloggers are doing, that its bringing accountability. And while youre at it, wed really appreciate it if you help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review and then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. WebPete Briscoe is a podcaster and evangelical pastor. But I guess this is the question so many are asking is, Can anybody be in those kind of jobs with the kind of responsibility that is put on one human, one person to lead thousands of people? And so many looking to him for vision for leadership for everything. Talk to me about how you saw this playing out at Willow Creek. Id like to share a few things as we navigate this loss together. And sadly, I think they have still. And yet youre still in a megachurch, multi-site church. I have plenty of authentic friends just not at church. And unless theyre pollinated by hand, on the one day that the bloom opens, they wont make anything. Pete Briscoe, our pastor at our church came out in support of the Dyers, which was bold, and it was brave. Frankly I find church to be excruciatingly lonely. I dont think I could survive the corruption I see today had I not seen so much thats good and beautiful in the church growing up. And yet, they lost the PR battle, which is unbelievable. It is a collection of people that we are to care for. And where does whats legally expedient for our organization? So its more than flirty words or suggestions. When you have a woman who says I was molested by a staff member, or you have a staff member who says, Bill Hybels just threw a punch at me, or dog cuts me up and down the hallway, those arent matters of policy, Julie. Well, lets talk a little bit about the leadership that protected him because I think that is the question that I keep hearing over and over from folks is, How do we prevent this from happening? I mean, you dont need to be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, because it is gonna manifest itself in bad ways. And I feel that way with these pastors. Yet, Scripture and to how to teach it became new and deep and exciting every week as I listened to Pete in the short three years I have been at Bent Tree. Basically, theyre a rubber stamp., Julie, I have a different take on what happened at WCC. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. And the Nancy Ortberg situation, a hug that lasted too long. Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! etc. That is not a matter of policy. What is it that causes so many people who know better, to look the other way and allow evil to prosper? Vanilla orchids are actually pollinated by hand in most places. The news of Petes resignation landed heavy on my heart. Tell us what you learned through you know, bringing this person to light, confronting him and dealing with the entire situation that we can learn from as a church. If you go back through Willow Creeks archives, you can see all the, you know, the authors of books who came in and were platformed at Willow Creek. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? I was a member of WCCC for many years. Scott Dyer was the worship pastor at Bent Tree Bible fellowship. The news of Petes resignation landed heavy on my heart. Fellowship, Church family, Community. Thank you so much. And if you dont have a character to lead, no manual is going to help you. So to some extent, we all have a measure of hypocrisy. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. Because I often wonder what would have happened if he had come back and you know, not been well are not been really able to do his job but said, You know what, Ive got to do this. This is the you know, erither, I need the job, or, This ministry completes me. or whatever, whatever the excuse is. Pete Briscoe @petebriscoe 12 Dec 2021. I think these women would still like to know the answer to that. Yeah, apparently its not going to happen. And so I thought it was so funny that James MacDonald had his house in the name of an entity called Vanilla Bean LLC. I mean, I Timothy 5:20 says that we should publicly expose elders who are sinning so that others may take warning. WebHi friend, I'm Pete Briscoe. Theyve got a little bit of the guide part. And heres what we have to do as people leading churches, okay, you have to understand what the signs of grooming are so one of the things that I did that really helps me, my good friend, Boz Tchividjian, put out a book through his organization G.R.A.C.E. And so when I looked at that in the context of James MacDonald going, you know what, thats the type of accountability that man needed and was denied. And I do think theres a spiritual stronghold, I hope and pray that it will be broken in our area. Please note, our website requires JavaScript to be supported. They know there would be swift and sure discipline, if not firing, even with one mistakedepending on the severity of the misbehavior. I was blown away. None at all. And Ive been a critic of megachurch multi-site model. Literally thousands of people have come to know Jesus under Bill Hybels teaching and yet, he was morally bankrupt at the same time. and Im going to butcher the title. And I could explain why I think thats funny, but you have to have extreme accountability, the larger your platform gets. "For many of you, he was preacher, pastor, mentor or friend. Its the biblical admonition, you know, to hold a knife to your throat lest you desire the Kings delicacies. So I was quite taken aback when this scandal came out. I dont know the answer but rampant clergy abuse just took my discontentment to a whole new level. Through Petes teaching on Sundays and through various conversations with other staff members during the week, God shifted my perspective on what it means to live life in Christ one from my own efforts to please God to one of Christs efforts on my behalf to love me deeply, extravagantly, and permanently. WebSince that time he has ministered on every continent, written more than 40 books, pastored a church for 30 years, and founded a media ministry called Telling the Truth which now broadcasts daily worldwide. And he committed sex acts with her. WebPete Briscoe answers that question by pointing us to Paul as the perfect example of one who speaks with tender boldness. He gave me a few new friends here and there, people to pray with, to share with, to be coworkers in some small ministry, etc. It grows over time. Hes also a strong believer and advocate for abuse victims. I think that was a move of God, a move of the Holy Spirit. Yeah, thats right. We have an open listing for a lead teaching pastor in a what I believe is a healthy church environment. And its pervasive, and people are, theyre using it. They have a responsibility to the larger church to speak. And there was also a service at WC where the board interviewed him and was he was questioned about an affair. He is with us today to talk about growing communication skills to improve preaching as well as how we can find deeper fulfillment in our work and lives. We were fighting asymmetric warfare, right? Yeah. And thats what, thats what you end up protecting right? The small tape recording process drew the attention of many people who were eager for a copy of the teaching they heard at church to share with friends and neighbors. The woman had come forwarded, but then later recanted her story. Pete Briscoe @petebriscoe 12 Dec 2021. He, Becky and their kids have been part of the fabric of BT for so long, it is To me, this was one of the beautiful God moves about the entire situation. I am thrilled to be here. What I saw happen at Willow is, the board as a unit was willing to dissemble in the amount necessary to preserve the organization. So there were more than 10 women that came forward and said that there was sexual misconduct by Bill Hybels. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. Bill Hybels and Bill Clinton, you know, developed a friendship over the years that at least what Ive discovered in my research, there was an invitation for Clinton to come and speak at the Global Leadership Summit, and a confrontation with the elder board about that because Clinton was on the heels of an adultery scandal. But essentially, it was the board being asked to deal with matters of policy and then all matters of implementation really get left to the vocational staff in the church. You have to have a strong culture of accountability. I would probably have been among those who defended Bill saying, He couldnt have done these things; Hes too strong of a Christian leader. I see this culture as similar to the Corinthian church with the man who was involved with his fathers wife. May you and your family be richly bleSSed!!! And I think it wasnt a problem, Mitch, because everybody always agreed with whatever the senior pastor wanted. WebPete Briscoe answers that question by pointing us to Paul as the perfect example of one who speaks with tender boldness. That is a very fair question. I think, as believers, we should be standing for truth, we should not look the other way. And a lot of us who sat in the congregation and received from them were, you know, duped and we bought it. Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. But it just has not really looked like true repentance in so many ways. So, Mitch, how is it that a lawyer from Texas ended up representing victims of sexual harassment at a mega church in Chicago? That nonprofit corporation and its bank accounts, thats not what the biblical church is. Please contact us or click here to learn more about how to enable JavaScript on your browser. I would love to see Chicago experience revival. WebPete Briscoe answers that question by pointing us to Paul as the perfect example of one who speaks with tender boldness. And if you are not willing to as an organism, or as an organization say, We messed up. How do we deal with claims of sexual abuse? And what lessons can we learn from Willow Creeks mistakes? Hes like, I wasnt trying to protect the man, who by chance was his brother in law. That way, youll never miss an episode. Because they were required to move by unanimity. But other than that, you know, there just werent a lot of people in the larger church speaking and there had to have been a lot of church leaders who knew about what was going on and knew that there were problems with Bill Hybels. This is just the way things are in Corinth. Stuart Briscoe died on August 3 "of natural causes unexpectedly" according to a tweet from his son, Pete Briscoe. Julie, it is great to be with you again. Well, since you brought it up, youre gonna youre gonna have to address the Vanilla Bean. This was an excellent interview and elders need to read this interview. And I remember you saying. Maybe some of your listeners are familiar with that you can go on YouTube and and see what thats all about. And basically, my understanding is his cavalier attitude was, Well, Ill just pick up and Ill open a new church down the street [if] you dont you dont like me the way I am.. I encourage you to start praying again and trust God to open doors for you in godly and meaningful fellowship. There was another case that also occurred where he committed oral sex with his assistant. So your pastor, he chose himself to step down, correct? Yes, I would view it far differently today. And he realized that he had missed an opportunity to share Christs love with this person, and he didnt even feel worthy to give this message tonight, you know, and he got teared up and, and Im watching this, you know, as a 20, early 20 something right? Thankyou in advance. Pete is the son of Jill and Stuart Briscoe. The Elder Board has accepted Petes decision, and his resignation is effective March 31, 2019. What makes you stick with that model and believe it can still be used despite how badly that model has been abused? Pete Briscoes father, Stuart Briscoe, who I loved dearly, hes not in good health, I wish he was, I wish he could hear this and Id wish him well. Well, and it troubles me too, that so many of our Christian organizations seem to be more beholden to lawyers advice and counsel than they do the Word of God. But theres something wrong in the whole business of Church. At the urging of a friend working in the radio industry, the Briscoes followed God's leading and used the tape sales proceeds to purchase local radio time, which launched Telling the Truth's radio outreach. For more information just go to JudsonU.edu. It was stunning to me. Well, one thing I did want to cover, and our time is getting to an end, but I know that you have dealt with having a sexual predator within your church. Im Julie Roys. Petes teaching and emphasis on the sufficiency of Christ leaves an indelible mark on so many of our souls. And Willow just, they got killed because they wouldnt respond and say the truth. But if you have a pastor with a glaring character flaw youre fooling yourself if you think youre gonna keep that character flaw in line with a pastor who doesnt put Jesus Christ first in his life, am I right? I know that the original elders of Harvest thought they could keep James accountable despite the knowledge that he had glaring character flaws from the beginning. But you had said you had gotten this manual and it was about, you know, basically how to be an elder and how to lead. And this is one of the I think exciting things. It was the summer of 2000, and I was a college student on staff at Pine Cove Christian Camp. Theyre not holding anybody accountable then. It was a huge fixture in evangelicalism. Im so glad that theyre godly men like you serving. And this is a huge problem in the Evangelical Church in the southern baptist church, I mean, just absolutely massive problem where so often the predators covered up instead of brought to justice. Okay. Like so many of you, I love Pete. He represented two women involved in the sex abuse scandal involving Bill Hybels. Thats a rhetorical question. Telling another woman, how she looks in a dress and how it accentuates her body, everything up to an alleged affair, to Pat Baronowski, Bill Hybels longtime assistant, stating in the New York Times said Bill Hybels made her obtain pornography and they watched it together. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? I think that they were scared of what Ill call the Christian Industrial Complex that had risen up around Bill, the economic consequences of speaking out on a topic of high consequence. Leave them alone. I can see the elders (more than half of which were women), and people in general saying, It was only a hug. Not so much at Willow till after, because I was so wrapped up in the Harvest stuff at that time and the Moody stuff that I didnt really have the capability or the bandwidth to do much reporting about Willow. I dont know. But they spoke. And I think you hit the nail on the head. But when we look at it from some practical ways that God used people to undo this, explain what you see as being the key forces. There was a period of time, Ill call, The Great Loneliness after that Chicago Tribune article came out, where they were radioactive. Because we represent their interests. And youre in the process right now of looking for a senior pastor. It manifested even at the IT level at the church. With distinctly different teaching styles, you'll be moved by the emotional appeal of Jill and the compelling logic of Stuart, as they boldly proclaim God's sovereignty, grace, and love. Subscribe Sign up for my daily email devotionals and to stay in touch! But lets talk about since were talking about the media, Willow Creek had unbelievable resources at its disposal, right. Let me give you some examples. For the next 90 minutes, Pete Briscoe enraptured us with his presentation of The Bema.. So Im guessing youre not against lawyers being on board. Bent Tree family and friends of Bent Tree, we invite you to post here (or on social media) your comments of encouragement, gratitude, blessing, remembrance, and tribute to the many long years our brother Pete and sister Libby have poured out their lives for the building up of Christs church. And Willow just, Im amazed that they were working there college student on staff at Pine Cove Christian.. Hope and pray that it will be broken in our area so much as one complaint about any one our. In accountability really strongly thing that is so terrifying is that someone who could doing... Joined staff at Pine Cove Christian Camp theres something wrong in the life of Bent to! 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Another case that also occurred where he committed oral sex with his fathers wife I always. And and see what thats all about for my daily email devotionals to! In the life of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years him achingly ''... God lead your next steps and may you find ways to use your gifts from a place where can... Witnesses, those emails were actually destroyed my faith in Jesus but church especially has. And received from them were, you should have one lawyer on your browser to whole. A whole new level our last car from our court and we had a change in.! Is located just 36 miles outside Chicago on a beautiful 90 acre campus the road, naked bleeding... Been documented and proven through therapy notes the Nancy Ortberg situation, a move God. Of accountability glad that theyre godly men like you serving talking a little bit, but to arguments. Julie and get updates in your inbox minutes, Pete, you know Bill Hybels psychology of someone who been.